textPad 8.0.2: edit EXISTING file causes Save As

[kevinHealy]

I just upgraded from a recent version of TextPad 7 to TextPad 8.0.2.

(Aside to the TextPad developers: thank you for continually working to enhance your product! I love Textpad 8's Unicode support, and your file comparison tool is a huge improvement.)

It has mostly been trouble free, but I sometimes see one strange behavior that a skim of this forum does not seem to have been reported yet.

Specifically, I can be editing an EXISTING file, and TextPad will bring up the Save As dialog when I did not expect it to.

This has happened to me several times. Now that I am paying more careful attention, I am 99% sure that when it has happened, it was always right after I hit ctrl-s. The document should have simply been saved right then and there, but instead, the Save As dialog appeared. I for sure did not type F12. I also note that not every time that I hot ctrl-s does this happen, only a minority of the time, which makes it hard to diagnose.

Has anyone else seen this happen?

Is it a bug?

[bbadmin]

Take a look under Configure/Preferences/Backup, and see if the option to "Automatically save every "n" minutes is enabled.

[kevinHealy]

Take a look under Configure/Preferences/Backup, and see if the option to "Automatically save every "n" minutes is enabled.

Thanks for your reply.

I do indeed have that preference set, however:

1) I have had it set for probably 15+ years now, and have never seen the behavior described in my initial post until I started using TextPad 8. So, TextPad 8 has changed something.

2) since my initial posting, I have seen it happen 2 more times, and now that I am paying more careful attention, I can confirm that it always happened right after I typed ctrl-s. (I need to edit that post...)

3) even if it was that preference triggering, why does TextPad 8 ask me to "Save As" instead of just "Save"? With "Save As", when you click OK, you then get a warning that it will overwrite the file.

[davephx]

Wow, this has been driving me batty also.

I've used for a decade plus and didn't recall this issue before.

Yes, I want to save every 5 minutes but when I do so or hit Control/S it brings up Explorer in the default directory, not the one that I have already saved once the file in. And as the prior note says its "save as." I don't want to have to find the file that is already open and reselect it to "save as". I just want to "save" it in the same file it is in, and I am working on.

Likewise, if you hit the save icon - again I have to go through the finding the file (which I am working on) and save as....

Most other programs (Word etc.rountine) far easier to periodically save the file your working on to be sure don't lose it without having to go through the routine and find the file again...which your already working on - if that makes sense.

Using Win10 latest. Textpad 7.6.2 which when check for updates says it is the latest available. I don't have any use for the added stuff in Ver 8 but seems that doesn't solve the save as issue.

[bbadmin]

Have you enabled "Working folder follows active document" on the General preferences page?

[kevinHealy]

Take a look under Configure/Preferences/Backup, and see if the option to "Automatically save every "n" minutes is enabled.

I installed the latest TextPad (8.9.0) on a brand new computer recently.

I started seeing this "Save As" bug in this new version of TextPad, and it was because I had set that option to "Automatically save every...".

Unchecking that option stopped this bug.

But I hope that the bug gets fixed some day.

[kevinHealy]

Have you enabled "Working folder follows active document" on the General preferences page?

That "Working folder follows active document" option does not trigger this bug.

I just installed the latest TextPad (8.9.0), and I have that option checked, and it does not trigger this bug.

[fulbore]

Still a problem in 9.4.1

[bbadmin]

If TextPad cannot save to a file, perhaps because it's read-only, or its timestamp has changed since it was opened, or the original no longer exists, the Save As dialog box is displayed to alert you.

If this doesn't explain the behaviour you're seeing, what kind of filesystem are your files on?

[kevinHealy]

bbadmin: sorry for this tardy reply.

I am seeing this Save As bug like crazy with TextPad version 9.8.0. Like 30-50% of the time when I type ctrl-s. But not 100% of the time! And that includes I sometimes see ctrl-s work on a given file and then sometimes fail on that same file.

I am about to update to version 9.8.2, which is now the latest version, but I am doubtful that this will solve the issue, since the release notes do not seem to describe it.

I am running a fully up to date patched version of Windows 10. The file system that I most commonly use for the files edited by TextPad is exFAT. I also have both Windows Defender as well as Malwarebytes (paid version) running on my computer.

There is no way that the phenomena is caused by the file being read-only or the original no longer exists.

I am not sure what you mean by "its timestamp has changed since it was opened". I only see this bug when I am editing a file (so it has changed contents) and I hit ctrl-s to save it (but instead the annoying Save As dialog pops up, and I have to choose to overwrite the file). Of course the file's modified time has (or should have) changed since I have edited it.

As mentioned above, since I am fairly certain that I see ctrl-s sometimes work and sometimes trigger Save As on the same file, I think that the bug must lie elsewhere than the factors that you have guessed at.

In my config of TextPad Preferences, I have:

1) Backup --> Automatically save every: [uncheck]
in order to try and stop this bug. But I really hate unchecking this.

2) General --> Working folder follows active document: [check]
since I really want this option, but if I still see this bug with 9.8.2 I will try unchecking it soon

Do you want to give me a special debug/logging build of TextPad to nail this bug's cause?

[AmigoJack]

Like 30-50% of the time when I type ctrl-s. But not 100% of the time! And that includes I sometimes see ctrl-s work on a given file and then sometimes fail on that same file.

That's relative: do you press CTRL+S every 2 minutes or more like every 10 hours? TextPad never had trouble over decades for me - it always acted as expected and not at random. What you experience surely has a different culprit.

The file system that I most commonly use for the files edited by TextPad is exFAT. I also have both Windows Defender as well as Malwarebytes (paid version)

exFAT should not be the issue, but if you're working on a virtual drive (network share, Google, OneDrive...) then it may disconnect and reconnect (or vanish and reappear) more often. Same with drives connected externally (f.e. via USB): just because it's plugged in doesn't mean Windows would see it all the time - it can still get lost and re-recognized again and again. There are many possibilites which are possible (though not wanted by users) that can make that one file you're working with unavailable (and available again) within milliseconds and you don't always have a chance to even notice that.

I am not sure what you mean by "its timestamp has changed since it was opened".

Both: file creation and file modification time. The file properties of your Explorer tell you this - you can also see/add such columns for the detail view of the Explorer. Have a look on both times when

• you open the file (to note when it was created and when it was last modified) and when
• CTRL+S results in the dialog window (to then compare both file times with the ones when opening them/having them saved the last time successfully as intended. Mind when TextPad automatically saved your file periodically - so for analysis reasons you might want to not use this feature temporarily).

Of course the file's modified time has (or should have) changed since I have edited it.

That's what you have to look at definitly instead of just assuming it. Including the file's creation time. If this still doesn't show any differences then have a look at if the folder/drive was available over all the time (it helps keeping an Explorer open of exactly that folder - it should auto-close if the folder or its whole drive get disconnected/vanish).

1) Backup --> Automatically save every: [uncheck]
in order to try and stop this bug. But I really hate unchecking this.

So this setting is checked=ticked=set, right? It may not be relevant, but at what interval would the automatic saves occur? Within minutes or hours?


In general:

• Technically any program (including Defender or non-personal installations) can delete a file and recreate it with the same content within milliseconds - then the file creation time would differ. You have virtually no chance to prevent this.
• Technically any program can also modify a file - this includes even the chance to effectively not change the content at all (think of just re-writing one character of the very same character again) which still results in a different modification file time.
• By default TextPad opens file non-exclusively, which means other programs can still write to the file. You can prevent this with the setting File > Keep files locked while editing them. This would rule out other programs messing with your files, so if the problem remains we might concentrate on drive/availability issues.

[bbadmin]

The exFAT filesystem has a lower resolution for timestamps than NTFS. Try checking "Ignore differences in modification times less than 2 seconds" on Configure » Preferences » File.