bloatware installs on bad (supported?) OS

[quakquak]

Ok. I installed the nearly 2MB hhupd.exe

I installed the nearly 2 MG instmsia.exe

Then I installed the huge (for an editor) txpeng472.exe

How do you expect users to use the program when the calling the help file you get "help file failed to launch". Or are we incharge of beta testing again (where's my check?)

This is on a W95 box, which your webpage says is ok with texpad??

[bbadmin]

We have to target TextPad at current versions of Windows, which contain features that are not standard in older versions. Microsoft have abandoned support for Windows 95, but we have tried to retain support for it in TextPad. However, to do that, it is necessary to bring Windows 95 up to a certain standard, as specified on our download page. In particular, it is necessary to install the Microsoft Installer (MSI), before TextPad can even be installed, and IE 4 or later, plus hhupd, to display the help file.

As you are comfortable using an 8 year old operating system, it would be better to stick with an earlier release of TextPad, which was designed for Windows 95. Version 4.1 uses the old WinHelp engine, so does not require IE and hhupd, nor does it require MSI. You can download it from here:

ftp://download.textpad.com/pub/textpad4.1/txpeng41.exe

See the Release Notes for the differences between that and the current release. You can probably find out the differences between Windows 95 and XP at microsoft.com. Note that Microsoft are not providing security fixes for Windows 95, so you use it on the internet at your own risk.

Keith MacDonald
Helios Software Solutions

[quakquak]

Since you didn't read my post, you don't know that I FOLLOWED YOUR devlopers' webpage instructions and installed the support files I've already named PRIOR to the latest version of textpad. Also I have a working IE 5.5 on my system. YOUR SOFTWARE DOESN'T WORK following your CO's instructions and following their false claims that it's OK to use with Win95. Also, ALL versions of WINDOZE suck. There are as many or more security holes in the later version than in previous versions, even more so because the later versions are more targeted by hackers. Just another example of leaving users in the lurch and using users as beta testers because you guys don't adequately test your programs before releasing them. Thanks for wasting my time.

[quakquak]

I found a partial answer to my own earler question in my post above.

From another textpad webpage:

"Why doesn't the online help work?
Please note that the online help in TextPad 4.x requires Microsoft's HTML Help
Engine. If you have Windows 95, NT 3.51 or NT 4 prior to Service Pack 4, please download and install this self-extracting TextPad help file, which uses the old Windows Help Engine:

TXPWINHELP.EXE (English only).

Alternatively, except for NT 3.51, you may install Internet Explorer, and then run Microsoft's HHUPD.EXE (705KB)."

So, given that their earlier instructions, which they now say are "alternative" instructions did not make their program help icon functional on W95 (which they say they support), how am I to evaluate their other solution to download and earlier help file?
With suspicion no doubt. Notice they do not give any install instructions, nor do they answer whether or not this will conflict with their "alternative" (which on their other page is the main solution). IOW if I download the older help file will it conflict with the other two installs that they said would fix their buggy help code? I may have missed it but I don't recall them telling at program download time that their program requires phoneing home to get help files. This smells like spyware or datamining to me. Why must a user connect online to get help for the program?

Since the earlier reply from their forum support staff didn't answer my questions, perhaps they can forward this post to one of their senior programmers to answer my questions above.

[Bob Hansen]

I agree whole heartedly quakquak:

Thanks for wasting my time.

.
Agree not with your comments, but for wasting my time and the time of hundreds of others.

Take some more time to browse the forum and you will see almost everyone is extremely satisfied. And those who have problems usually get a resolution within a few hours. Not only is TextPad a great product, but the user community is one of the best you find on any forum.

This forum is abundant with satisfied users and developers who are usually more than happy to work with anyone. But I think you need to tone down a little bit or no one will help.

Let me be the first to sign up on that list.

[bbadmin]

There's one small point with which I have to agree with quakquak: the FAQ does state that the WinHelp file can still be used. I have now added the qualification that it has not been updated since release 4.4.1, so context sensitive help may not work.

As an aside, WinHelp files had to be prepared in RTF, with some disgusting hacks to support hot links. It was very difficult to maintain, and even harder to translate, which is why it was only available in English. The new help is written in HTML, for which it is much easier to find translators.

Keith MacDonald
Helios Software Solutions

[quakquak]

Context sensitive help does not work with the earlier help file.

In addition, now that I followed Helios's lousy instructions to install hhupd.exe and instmsia.exe in order to use their program which they claim works with W95, several of my other program which
previously had chm help files working have quit working in help and some cause exception errors when help is accessed.

Thanks again Helios. I'll be sure to recommend your company whenever I can.

[talleyrand]

Assuming you are not trolling quakquak, let's examine your claim of TextPad being huge (for an editor). Now, are you referring to the download or the actual space on disk required? The download is 1.86 MB. Now, I did a search on google and downloaded the top 8 results that I'd heard of (I'm a developer so I've heard of a quite a few). The following is the downloaded package size on disk.
Vim 62 (non-gui) 613k
Edit Plus 876k
Crimson Editor 980k
Textpad 1906k
Emacs (bare bones) 2090k
Ultra Edit (usually touted as TP's competitor) 2607k
Boxer editor 2744k
Zues editor 3150k
GT edit 3324k
VIM (GUI) 4144k
Emacs (kitchen sink included) 12700k

Not bad given what you get in TP compared to the the other less bulky editors.

Let's examine space on disk (W2k, NTFS right-click the base folder->properties).
VIM 1.16 MB
Edit Plus 1.78 MB
TP 3.2 MB
Boxer 3.39 MB
Crimson Editor 3.99 MB
UltraEdit 5.41 MB
Zues 6.03 MB
Emacs (bare-bones) 6.22 MB
GTEdit 6.57 MB
GVIM 11.3 MB

Hmmm, looks like a winner to me. Now if you'd really like, I can pull out a memory manager and look at the memory requirements as each runs but I don't feel like it. Unless you'd like to offer some shred of proof that TextPad is a huge editor, I'll consider that argument null and void.

As for the other troubles you've had, it is unfortunate that you are having trouble running the latest and greatest version of TextPad on an 8 year old operating system, more so since the installation instructions were not up to snuff. However, Helios has since updated the install information based upon your experiences. I don't believe there is any willfull intent by the company to take your 30 bucks (if you've even registered).

I have no desire to quibble about the products you downloaded in an attempt to get the help working. I suspect they would be required by quite a few other recent software offerings. At any rate, Helios has no control over what they do or how they perform. If you have issues, you should contact the vendor and direct your venom there. Here's the support link for Windows 95.

Cheers.

[ben_josephs]

> Emacs (kitchen sink included) 12700k

The full version includes a programmable jacuzzi.

[bbadmin]

This is what bloatware actually means. Judging by the Enhancement Requests forum, TextPad is still pretty trim

Keith MacDonald
Helios Software Solutions

[ben_josephs]

But at least you can program it. :-)))

[quakquak]

I respect that you have not tried to censor my posts and that you have remained civil.

I was referring to the download size of the files, but I still think the size of TP is too large. I will concede that there are others that are larger and perhaps you are correct that the system resources used are not great.
I think most software nowadays is bloatware.

Now, I will share what I have learned so others will benefit and so that Helios will as well.

Microsuck, true to it's reputation, on one web page says to install hhupd on win98 and on another says don't do it. They are consistent in their inconsistency.
For win95 they say install it.

Well, they are wrong. Turns out my system already had earlier versions of files for reading chm compressed help files. And, several apps were using them. After doing the "upgrade" many apps could not use the new files.

hhupd should not be installed on Win95 machines; probably not on win98 either. If you do, and run into the same problem, here is the solution.

1) Backup system.dat and user.dat

2) rename hh.dat to hh.tad
rename hh.exe to hh.eex
rename Itss.dll Itss.lld
rename Itircl.dll Itircl.lld

Above steps are in case it doesn't work on your system you can go back to before changes.

3) From backups and you must have backups to get the files, otherwise this won't work,

4) copy hh.dat, hh.exe,Itss.dll,Itircl.dll to their resident directories (from which they came).

Reboot.
Your help files will now work again.

I haven't tested this yet, but if you have the files above that read other .chm help files, you MAY be able to use the latest textpad without any changes to your system.

Helios needs to delete the recommendation to download and update hhupd and the other MS bloatware "update" files and tell win95 users to either use the txpwihelp.exe, which installed with no problems, but lacks context help or see if their system can use other .chm files and perhaps use Txpad without any additional installs.

[bbadmin]

Thanks for taking the time to describe how you eventually got TextPad working.

Your misadventures worried me, so I resurrected an old PC and installed a clean copy of Windows 95 on it, then applied service pack 1. At this point, I had Internet Explorer 3.01, so I went to http://www.microsoft.com/windows95/downloads/, to check for updates, but that page would not load. I then installed IE 4.02 from a CD-ROM, and was able to load the updates page, after ignoring JavaScript errors. At this point, I ran the TextPad 4.7.2 setup program, which downloaded and ran instmsia.exe, then installed TextPad, and started it at completion. The online help didn't work, as expected, so I then installed hhupd.exe, after which everything worked perfectly.

I don't like to pass the buck, but I feel confident that we have done what is required of us to justify our statement that TextPad is supported on Windows 95. It's hard enough having to take account of all the different versions of Windows, so we shouldn't be expected to have to take account of any changes made to the operating system by other applications that you have installed. Microsoft, to their credit, got a hold of this problem ("DLL hell") with Windows XP, which prevents applications from overwriting shared parts of the operating system.

Whatever, I hope TextPad helps with the tasks for which you decided you needed a powerful text editor.

Keith MacDonald
Helios Software Solutions

[quakquak]

If memory serves, I believe I installed instmsia.exe, which went without an error, then hhupd.exe, which returned and exception error, but then a box saying successful install and then Texpad 4.72. But I already had IE 5.5 on my system; my guess is that the engine to read .chm files conflicted with the ones hhupd installed, but I'm just speculating. (I don't like features that phone home for online help, especially if they go to MS)

I don't understand how a company with the resources MS has can't do a better job on their software. I wish that others were not so reliant on this company.

I like Textpad, and am learning regular expressions editing, which is the main reason I installed it.

I do have one question. How can I input a text file with strings such that Textpad will search a set of multiple (4-5) files based on the text file containing the strings, doing a search for each string in the file which are separated by either new line or white space?

Thanks.

[Bob Hansen]

I do have one question. How can I input a text file with strings such that Textpad will search a set of multiple (4-5) files based on the text file containing the strings, doing a search for each string in the file which are separated by either new line or white space?

Suggest you make this a separate topic under the General Forum.