Community

THIS IS A TEST!

This is my latest attempt to generate poll questions automatically.

This Message and the Poll Questions were generated by a small routine I have been picking away at......not ready for distribution yet.

All of the above were generated automatically with defaults that could be edited. That provides for five options using Jeff's defaults, but still provides individual tailoring for expressions. I accepted all defaults but decided to change the last one.

The words that are used don't really matter in the calculation since the results are a numberic calculation based on relative position. Top = YES, Bottom =NO, Center three are importance adjustments. Words can provide some VOLUME to the readers however

But at least this will make the generation of FIVE choices easier, and still allow for the Personal Emphasis desired by the originator.

Stay tuned......No expected release date........

I see a very close resemblance between and
Good work with that routine.. creating a poll here is really not a walk in the woods.

webM

Hello Webmasta, dcantor, MudGuard

Please provide me with an email address that I can use to send you a beta version of my Poll Generator.

Bob ... Thank you for this opportunity, very good effort (creative as well as innovative), makes creating a poll almost a no-brainer...

Observations:
A. The utility is defaulting to my second monitor, maybe you created it on your second monitor and MS locked the co-ordinates based on using both screens as the desktop.

If so, what happens to those using only one monitor?

This only happens with the preliminaries, but on ready to create the poll, it defaults to my main monitor for the questions, then back to the aux monitor at the "poll now ready to be created screen".
(In the final release you could consider making the preliminaries sit on one screen)

2. Specified window "community not peresnt" ... Thsi area needs some tweaking.. those of us on auto login may not have a problem... but if you move to the login screen and remain there, the utility throws a message looking for the community page, this area is hazy because it seems like the creator will load the posting page anyway.

3. Enhancement Subject could be
"Enhancement subject - This will be the subject of your post" or something similar for clarification.

4. Enter the poll question which defaults to "This is the poll question?" - confused me - could be something like "This heading will appear at the top of your poll" (At first I thought it was the first option until I saw the next screen)

4. THEN .. ( screenshot ) I am not getting the first option to drop correctly, insted its using the poll question as the first option. Nothing I tried was successful, from closing all the toolbars, (I only have links toolbar showing anyway) to tightening the browser window etc.

There may be more but these are what I nailed in my first assesment.

I have some (limited) knowledge of MS and how it works with the co-ordinates and I suspect that may your biggest hurdle.
I am running win98SE IE5.5 and 5.1 (800x600) maximized.
Tried it on my aux screen at 1024 ... same results - poll question dropping in as the first option.

If the co-ordintes is the culprit here...
Solution IMO may be to have MS use javascript (?) to resize the window (inner width x inner height) to a specific size so the co-ordintes will always be consistent for the fields?
If this can be achieved, then having users close all toobars etc can be avoided.

webM

Thanks Webmasta

Not unexpected I guess, but really surprised. I did test this out on three other systems and had no problems. But here goes:

From your observations:

Thank you for this opportunity, very good effort (creative as well as innovative), makes creating a poll almost a no-brainer...

That sounds encouraging, I guess I will plug away at this. Thanks.

1. The utility is defaulting to my second monitor....If so, what happens to those using only one monitor? .....
(In the final release you could consider making the preliminaries sit on one screen)

I only have one monitor. I would not know how to redirect to another monitor. Any suggestions are welcome. Do I need to check some registry settings? I don't want to do anything that will modify anyone's system. But perhaps set up another "check this" window?

2. Specified window "community not peresnt " this area is hazy because it seems like the creator will load the posting page anyway.

I understand. Once it is used and the rules are known, all the front end stuff should not be needed. It is there now because I don't have workarounds to do auto checking of certain conditions. I could put all those instructions in a readme.txt file but am hoping to include checking and adjustments in the final version.

3. Enhancement Subject could be "Enhancement subject - This will be the subject of your post" or something similar for clarification.

No Problem....Again, once it is used, you know you are just going to type over it anyway.

4. Enter the poll question which defaults to "This is the poll question?" - confused me - could be something like "This heading will appear at the top of your poll" (At first I thought it was the first option until I saw the next screen)

Same as above.....No Problem....Again, once it is used, you know you are just going to type over it anyway.

4. THEN .. ( screenshot ) I am not getting the first option to drop correctly, insted its using the poll question as the first option. Nothing I tried was successful, from closing all the toolbars, (I only have links toolbar showing anyway) to tightening the browser window etc.

Thanks for the screenshot, but I did also understand from your explanation, well done. This is my biggest area of control. I am using TABs to move through the web page. Tab counting varies with toolbars, ASP changes, etc.

I have some (limited) knowledge of MS and how it works with the co-ordinates and I suspect that may your biggest hurdle. I am running win98SE IE5.5 and 5.1

I am not using MouseMove, had too many issues with extra taskbars, font sizes, resolutions, etc. MouseMoveRel did not solve this for me, so I have reverrted to TAB counting. But the TAB count is the toughest challenge. I suspect that this is because of the MSIE version. I was using 6.2 on all my test systems. It sounds like 5.5 and 5.1 may require one less Tab. So now I need to have the routine check what version of MSIE is being used, and modify the counts accordingly.

If the co-ordintes is the culprit here... Solution IMO may be to have MS use javascript (?) to resize the window (inner width x inner height) to a specific size so the co-ordintes will always be consistent for the fields?

I have not yet delved into javascript, so this may be the thing that forces me to learn that.

I was able to maximize window with MS, but relative position of windows wasnot consistent between different systems. Screen painting is not an area I am familiar with so I have avoided going down that path for a soultion. Old saying:"When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail!"

There may be more but these are what I nailed in my first assesment.

I will try to modify for 5.5 (don't have a copy installed) based on your observations and send you a different version in the next few days.

Thanks for the feedback.

(In the final release you could consider making the preliminaries sit on one screen)

I should have explained this .. I really meant that insted of clicking through 5-6 ok dialogs for the prelims, just have all in one dialog.

If you only have one screen, then its definetly a puzzle why the prelims are defaulting to the middle of my aux monitor then jumping back to the middle of the default monitor when it gets to the poll dialogs to fill in...

I've had cases with some apps where dialogs would split between the two monitors because it takes the width of both as the total desktop and /2 to find the middle resulting in a half and half scenario.

I would not know how to redirect to another monitor. Any suggestions are welcome. Do I need to check some registry settings?

I dont think this has to be a registry setting... maybe look over the MS script and see if theres any inconsistencies with the positioning of the popups.

Dunno why you couldnt see the screenshot but the link works for me.. maybe you could rightclik the link and save target as.

Getting the cursor into the poll question field is where the problem lies... if the fileds had a tabindex=1, tabindex=2 etc inserted into the html then coming from the textarea to the poll question would be chronological ... on IE5.1 tabbing out of the textarea focuses the preview button ... something dont seem right there, I could look into that later.

I never tried js in MS but if ure able to call up the posting page from MS then maybe you can use a window.open() and pass some arguments to open to a specific height and width (thats if we cant get Helios to modify the html to include the tabindex of the fileds)...

Also needed to help with the toolbar issues will be to have the first field focused on page load .. here again the Helios will have to step into the html.

I could do a quick open script if you need.

webM

Robert,

Tried it twice with smooth operation each time.

Suggestions:

a way to abort at each message rather than having to go through several.

a lot of sites are using this BB, a next step might be to make it possible to specify which BB we wanted to post to.

3. Why restrict this to a poll? I would love to be able to compose a post on the desktop (which is what I do anyway most times) and then just click something and have it posted to the right Bb. which leads to...

4. Why do we need to be at the site to start this, why not have it be able to open the browser and go to the site as well?

Or were you thinking you were going to get off easy? haha

5. As well as restoring the users sidebars and searchbars, does the toggle restore the screensize? I don't work full screen, but I don't have any of the sidebars etc., so did not try this.

ps: w2K pro textpad 4.7.1 MS i.e.6.0

For Webmasta....
Boy, you are fast!

Dunno why you couldnt see the screenshot

I ended up editing that line because I did see the screenshot. On first reading, like a dummy, I did not click on it, assuming it was just a bad imbedded link that should have shown the image.

I don't want to bother Helios for changes to the web pages. This forum package is not theirs, and I think they would want to avoid customizing unless really necessary for their own needs. I guess I am willing to take on the burden myself.

I may take you up on a javascript though. No reason this tool can't be a collaborative effort.

Stay tuned.....

Thanks for feedback mo......

Tried it twice with smooth operation each time.

That is good news. And I see that you are using MSIE 6.0. Mine is OK with 6.2, but Webmasta had problems with 5.1 and 5.5. It will be great if that is the only issue.

Comments on your suggestion:

a way to abort at each message rather than having to go through several.

Am looking at a single dialog box to replace the Messages.

a lot of sites are using this BB, a next step might be to make it possible to specify which BB we wanted to post to.

Grrrrr...arrgh! Great idea! Will keep in mind for Version 10.

3. Why restrict this to a poll? I would love to be able to compose a post on the desktop (which is what I do anyway most times) and then just click something and have it posted to the right Bb....

Hey, I like the way you think. That sounds like Version 15. If I can get the basic posting to the right fields nailed down, then using imported data should be much easier.

4. Why do we need to be at the site to start this, why not have it be able to open the browser and go to the site as well?

I intended it to be used from anywhere in the forum. Not a problem to start Explorer, but then I have to worry about being logged in, etc.

Or were you thinking you were going to get off easy? haha

AHA, my secret is out!

5. As well as restoring the users sidebars and searchbars, does the toggle restore the screensize? I don't work full screen, but I don't have any of the sidebars etc., so did not try this.

The toggle is only for Google ToolBar. I can probably capture the beginning screen position and size and restore them before returning control. Ultimately I would like to check for toolbars and restore them, but for now I am looking at a quick and dirty tool.

Just picking away at this in spare moments.......stay tuned, thanks again for the info.

Making progress. I have just sent a new beta version to a group of testers. The following changes were implemented.

1. Combined multiple messages into one dialog block. More explanation about removal of Toolbars.
2. Provided input to ID browser, no logic based on results yet.
3. Combined all Poll information onto one Dialog box
4. Provided option to Cancel until OK after Poll Info is accepted.
5. Resize the window to size and position before running routine
6. Provided input for other web site forums.Future use for other forums, no logic based on results yet.
7. Provided check box to get web page id if not TextPad. Future use for other forums, no logic on results yet.
8. Added "Version" to top of Dialog boxes
9. Added Message to press CANCEL if not using MSIE 6.0 or higher.
10.Stops Auto Poll if MSIE Version 6.0 or higher not selected. For testing of Front End only at this time.

Next big step is to work for MSIE earlier than 6.0 and do automated detection of troublesome (to me) Toolbars. Stay tuned for updates.

Robert,

OK, I tried it twice. It worked fine with a couple of glitches. I like the streamlined dialogs and I much appreciate having my window size restored.

Glitches were that a couple of times clicking on the exe gives me a TextPad has created errors and will be shut down error. This happened twice and then the program ran fine. TP gives me this error now and again under normal circumstances, but this happened twice with this version of this script, and once with the previous version. No idea what's going on. May be a W2K Pro thing.

I do not use these polls so I do not know if this is a reasonable question: what happens if you only want one or two of the questions? does leaving them blank cause them not to appear, or does one need to delete them before submitting?

Bob
That front end is a WINNA!! First impression = Vast improvement.
Keep tweaking.

And: the message box is still on my aux monitor which is on the right but now closer to the main monitor, almost at the left edge of the aux screen like it wants to come over to the main screen.

The poll questions dialog, which, in the first beta was jumping over to the main screen is now staying put on the aux monitor in the same position as the messages, so whatever you did with the positioning is now consistent but the co-ordinates need looking into... not a show stopper now but keep in mind for final.. could be important.. will explain later.

I can see where the tabbing is jumping on playback and the tabindex is gonna be ure biggest hurdle because the page code itself is flawed.

Heres what I found in the html:

1. The subject field is set at tabindex="2" >> should be tabindex="1" but will work if all the other fields are sequential.

2. The textarea is set at tabindex="3" >> should be tabindex="2" but because its one more than the subject field it will tab correct.

3.The preview button is set at tabindex="5" >> This shouldnt even be there but some developers use a tabindex to bring the button into view if its below the visible screen,, which is ok because it works but shouldnt... tabindex is only for text fields.. but IE is known for impimenting its own rules... and because 5 is the next highest. the tab will junp to that, missing the poll question altogether.

3.The submit button is set at tabindex="6" .. same problem, then if you tab from there youre stuck because it doesnt know where to go (this is for IE <6 - read on)

At that point MS doesnt know where you are because ure not using MouseMove, but tabbing will carry you to the next field which is the first poll option, because you came from the poll question theoretically in the mind of MS.
(dunno if this makes sense to you)

I am not sure if meddling with the tab count will solve the IE5.1 issue because I think that IE6 may be coded to ignore that tabindex="5" in the preview button because its not valid code and that browser is supposed to standards compliant, and thats why it works ok for you guys on 6... IE 5 will follow the tabindex and get stuck.

webM

Hi mo....

Thanks for quick response. Let me address your issues:

1. Glitches were that a couple of times clicking on the exe gives me a TextPad has created errors and will be shut down error.

This routine does not use TextPad at all. That error must be related to the "normal" crashes that you mentioned. I can't envision any relationship between moving cusor on MSIE page and TextPad. Curious though, will have to keep my ears open.

2. what happens if you only want one or two of the questions? does leaving them blank cause them not to appear, or does one need to delete them before submitting?

Good question, that is why you should play with it. If you leave Subject or Question blank, you will not be able to Submit. You must delete the current default values in the form if you want fewer options.

BUT, the intention of making this was to help Jeffy's calculations be consistent with FIVE choices, highest to lowest. If you check this sticky forum message: http://www.textpad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3762 you will see that at the end of April 2003,when this Forum was created, he proposed the five defaults that I have provided. Many people either do not create polls, or don't use five choices. Changing the wording is not as bad as changing the count. Wording can make a bias toward a higher/lower vote. By using the same words all the time, the bias is removed. They can still be used in the calculations, but not if the options are not equal to five. That means they cannot be "scored" with the other polls. Having a tool to provide consistent wording and counts and easy data entry should help make a better evaluation system. With the current version of this tool right now, it only takes a few clicks of the mouse if you want to accept the defaults...POLL DONE!

This tool is intented to create a poll that will automatically enter the five default values defined by Jeffy for consistent rankings. But it does provide the option to change the wording if desired. In the end, the operator has full control of the whole poll. It can be submitted as is, or modified, or not submitted at all.

Once you end the routine, you can modify as you wish. I have not tested to see if any are left blank, I will look into that. Thanks for the great question.

Hope this was helpful...............thanks for your help,
Bob

(dunno if this makes sense to you)

Reffering to my last post (2 before this), let me see if I can explain this better.

When youre in textarea (where the mesage is typed), tabindex according to the html is 3, tabbing will take you to the next index in the html which is 5 (preview button) (IE6, it seems, is ignoring the tabindex in the html and doing the next logical textfield (poll question), which is correct. IE5+ is sticking to the html tabindex)

MS will try to execute the question text but it wont print to field because the preview button is not a textfield...

However, MS is retaining that text in memory to print, so as soon as it gets a textfield, it prints, which is incorrect, it should skip if it wasnt able to print, to the text associated with the next textfield. IS there any way (in MS) to check if the texfield name is correct and then only print if it is?

Now, once that is printed, it jumps over the option 1 text and continues with option 2 text which is correct but inconsistent with the above behaviour.

I also just noticed thats its putting an extra blank option at the bottom. Its in the screenshot above...

webM

I have found that I cannot use the Tab Indexes that are built into the pages. Am working on a different navigation method now.

Have you tried Version 1.b which I sent yesterday?
Would appreciate your comments on the new front end.

It has an option to ID your browser.
It does allow you to enter poll values, but will not try to do the posting if you ID MSIE lower than 6.0.

I think I am close to a solution on the Tabbing problem because of different versions, Toolbars, and Explorer Bars.

Thanks again..............
Bob