Why is "[File|]Save" ever "grayed out"??

[philiptdotcom]

Why is "[File|]Save" ever "grayed out"?? It's not like it's not an option ALL THE TIME; it is (well... it should be!!).

I realize that it's grayed out only when no changes have been made since the last save, but the option should never disappear. If you want to change the icon to something that indicates new changes, fine; but:

1 - don't gray it out on the File menu; and(!!!!!!)...

2 - don't CHANGE THE FUNCTIONALITY of the icon!!!! (Currently, if no changes have been made, clicking the icon does a "Save as"!! If I want to do "Save as", I'll do "Save as"!! If I want to click a "feel-good" button to save my document (again, even though it may already be saved), the icon should be un-grayed, and should retain the SAME functionality as it always has. TextPad folks might think this is "cute"--or even an "enhancement"--but nothing is GOOD if it doesn't do what users expect (e.g., based on every experience they've ever had with every other program ever used).

-pt

[ben_josephs]

1 - I don't like this at all. Under your proposal, an accidental save of an unchanged file would result in the file's time stamp being updated, thus losing information about when it was last really saved. If you really want to update the time stamp, add a space, delete it and save. You can even write a macro to do that.

2 - I don't have a view on this, because I never use tool bars. But if I did, I would probably agree (though I wouldn't have said it quite in the way you did).

[Bonzo]

I saw your post, and I "partially" agree... but mostly disagree.

I LOVE the grayed out button for save... I actually wish other programs were smart enough to do this... I hate not knowing, visually, if a file is saved or not.

Thus I also love the saveas feature, if the file is already saved.


----
As for the menu... hmm... I've never noticed this.. but I think since the icon is grayed out, this is the ideal match. There is nothing to save, therefore the option is not "available".

Cheers,
Steve

[hillsc]

I hate "me too" posts, but I gotta chime in. Leave "Save" greyed out. If you really want to save an unchanged file, change it, then save it (as suggested above).

[Johan]

It's been a year since the last reply but I would like to start up this discussion again.

From my point of view, I do not like the change of functionality of the save button, this is not expected and actually almost never wanted, and implies a extra button click which annoys me.

But ofcourse a save is not necessary, so don't. I love a grayed out save button in the toolbar. just make the save buttun inactive when my file is saved.

But the best solution would be to make it optional, let everybody choose it's own way:
- or change functionality to 'save as' when file is saved;
- or grey-out the save button;
- or save again, actually touching the file again (updating the time stamp);

I know I would set it to 'grey out' ....

Regards, Johan

[gesansom]

While I agree with Johan's suggestion to make this behavior user-defineable, I like the way it behaves now.

My point is that saving files is often a confusing issue depending on which program you're working in, but the time stamp issue should be the criteria for doing a "Save". The time stamp is a valuable file property (for programming files, at least) that many rely on heavily as a reference.

As for using "Save" as a phsycological security 'habit', it's not a good habit to have when the time stamp is a major reference criteria for your file's current status.

Regards,
Garry

[Johan]

I Also agree with Garry; when there is nothing to save it shouldn't save.

that's why, for me, I would prefer a grey save button. It is like the control-s function, when saved (i suppose) it will not save again, but it is to me a habbit after every little detail I change: control-s. When the save button is greyed out it feels all warm and fuzzy like there is nothing which could go wrong everything is saved... a save button which is not grey is telling me 'look here you could klick me, you could save something!!'

so best thing is to make it configurable! is this something that could be easily added?

regards,
Johan

[Mordachai]

Sounds like everyone is of one mind but the original poster:

The way the save function works in TextPad is supperior to other applications. Period.

They should work as TextPad does, IMO.

[Johan]

Whahaha supperior?! I'm really thinking of downgrading my textpad to a version where they grey out the save button, the 'save as' functionality doesn't make sence.

Would like to hear of the developers of textpad if they could make it optional, so everybody is happy. Don't think it is hard to do.

regards,
Johan

[gesansom]

What's possibly a source of confusion to some is that the * character appears beside the name in the Document Selector window, as it also does on the Window dropdown. While using the * character to identify changes has become somewhat of a standard in newer applications, the Save buttons/menus are normally left in their normal state. Applications that don't display a "flag" when changes have been made are becoming arcane (and right they should).

That said, IMO Helios has done this nicely and I wouldn't change it one bit. Nor would it pose a problem if they change it. Making it a Preference setting is not a big deal, so I guess it's just going to be a matter of how much feedback they get as to whether or not we see a response.

Mind you, I've been reviewing several text editors fairly extensively for almost 2 years, as candidates for a companion editor to a VBA utility addin of mine. After always coming back to TextPad, maybe I'm biased here. I did all my reviews in v4.x and I must admit I was pleasantly surprised when I upgraded to the current release.

Regards,
GS

[whquaint]

Here's another vote to keep the current behavior. I love it and use it all the time. I very frequently click the grayed save button to get save as. Sometimes I even use it just to copy the filename.

[MudGuard]

Sometimes I even use it just to copy the filename.

You know about
Edit -> Copy Other -> Filename
or
Context Menu -> Copy Other -> Filename
?

[THAiSi]

I too want the behaviour of textpad 4 back! when no changes, make the save button grayed out AND behave like a Save As.. button! I found this functionality really smart and it was one of the many little things I love about textpad!

[philiptdotcom]

You can always right-click the toolbar and custom-configure it by adding the "Save As" icon.