Metadata

[ramonsky]

In another thread, someone suggested remembering the state of a particular action on a text file - this would involve storing meta information about a text file.

Myself, I always find myself mildly bugged (but only mildly - 'tis no big deal) by the fact that documents "forget" their word-wrap status. It'd also be nice to store other stuff like the tab-width, whether to use a fixed-width or proportional font, etc. (I'm led to believe that there are acutally some people out there who do use TextPad with a proportional font sometimes, though I'm not one of them).

I'd stress that if we do go down this route, I must express my extreme repugnance of the use of NT streams. To put it another way, no, no, NO. If there's any metadata lurking around, I want to be able to see it (and edit it), not have it hidden from me.

So ... IF people want metadata, then I humbly suggest that it go in a separate text file. If the main file is called "filename.txt" then any associated metadata file could be callled "filename.txt.meta" (or something similar). Don't make it a proprietry format - publish the format and let other applications share it. You'd even be able to edit the metadata file with TextPad (possibly creating "filename.text.meta.meta" in the process).

(People who want not to see the metadata can, of course, tell Windows to hide files with this extension, although it's not something I'd do).

I'm not wildly for or against this enhancement suggestion - I'm just starting the thread here so that there's somewhere to have the discussion without clogging up the "folding" thread. But those are my thoughts, for what they're worth.

Jill

[MudGuard]

The obvious place to put any such meta information is the workspace file...

[CyberSlug]

Just tossing out ideas:

1) How about something analogous to web browser cookies? You could have a central storage location (presumably local); however, these "cookies" might be difficult to transfer to other computers...

2) NTFS allows for storage of metadata along with files. However, this feature would not be available to users with FAT32 or UNIX server file systems...

[ramonsky]

NTFS allows for storage of metadata along with files.

That is PRECISELY what I object to. NTFS file streams are a big NO WAY as far as I am concerned. On NTFS machines, it is possible to create a one byte file containing literally gigabytes of "metadata" hidden in invisible (named) streams. The original file will still show up in directory listings as being one byte long, just as if it had had no streams at all. There is no way to discover a list of stream names hidden behind a real file or to discover how much space they are consuming. Eventually, when you start to realise that your hard drive is geting full, you will have no way of tracking down where all the space is being used. NTFS streams suck!

I don't object to metadata per se, but if it's there, IT MUST NOT BE INVISIBLE. Do not hide my data from me.

NTFS Streams? - NO Absolutely not. Never!
Separate files or the workspace file? - Okay, I could live with that.

Jill

(As an aside, I'm led to believe the Mac gets it right - you have precisely ONE side-stream per file, called a "metadata fork" (I think). It is not hidden from view, and its size is determinable. Side-streams aren't a bad idea per se - just M$'s implementation of them).

[ben_josephs]

There is no way to discover a list of stream names hidden behind a real file or to discover how much space they are consuming.

There is if you use JP Software's replacement command line processor, 4NT (although the formatting of the output is a bit of a mess at the moment).

Code: Select all

[C:] dir /: xxx
...
2003-12-15  13:15               0  xxx
                               10    1:$DATA
                               20    2:$DATA
                               30    3:$DATA
...

See http://jpsoft.com/ .

[Bob Hansen]

I fully agree with ramonsky.

Hide no data.
Keep it as external file.
Allow it to be reviewed and/or edited.
Allow other programs to access it.
Allow other programs to modify it.

Disagree with making it part of Workspace, because Workspaces are not always used, needs to be associated with the file. But how about a common shared meta file that can be associated by more than one text file (Hmmm, beginning to sound like style sheets)?

Also need to have a way to easily port the text file and the meta data file to other folders, systems, etc. Perhaps text files with associated meta data files have unique extension? (Grrrr, if doing that , what about class definitions? Hmmm, it's never easy).

[ben_josephs]

There is no way to discover a list of stream names hidden behind a real file or to discover how much space they are consuming.

There is if you use JP Software's replacement command line processor, 4NT (although the formatting of the output is a bit of a mess at the moment).

JP Software have identified this problem (which doesn't normally arise) in their usual speedy manner, and will fix it soon.

[ben_josephs]

There is no way to discover a list of stream names hidden behind a real file or to discover how much space they are consuming.

There is if you use JP Software's replacement command line processor, 4NT (although the formatting of the output is a bit of a mess at the moment).

JP have fixed this. Speedy, as always.

[toddmarshall2002]

Since Bookmarks for files are saved in the Workspace, this is the proper place, and it works great.
If you don't use Workspaces, there should be a default one.
Why aint there?

[ramonsky]

Because this is a text editor.

When I edit an arbitrary and randomly selected file, I don't want extra files being created all over the place that I didn't order.

Nah - the existing "Save Workspace" idea is fine by me.

[ChipJust]

I think that all the metadata should go in the workspace file.

This would support something strange like, what if I want the metadata to be different for one file in two contexts...like if I am treating it as a data file or a source code file...or whatever.

-chip

[gracefool]

Yeah, I've always been annoyed about documents forgetting word-wrap.

Echo that, put the data in the Workspace. Then, when a document is opened by itself, check to see if it is in any workspaces? This would probably slow things down a bit much... hrrm, I dunno...

If the document isn't in a workspace, you probably don't open it very much.